Open mind

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Posts by Open mind

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  23

  Son to JW school-mate: "Go ahead. Tell the Jewish girl how the Jewish holiday REALLY happened."

  by Open mind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my family (wife and teenage kids) and i awakened to the true nature of the wt society a couple years ago and are fairly well faded now.. .

  my son attends high school with a couple of jws, one of whom is an elder's son and an ardent true believer.

  let's call him "con".

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  Open mind

  OK, I'm on break right now and will try to address most of djeggnogg's points. Everyone else, thanks for your replies so far.
  
  "Pray tell, what is our "true nature"?"
  
  That expression was intended to give a quick background snap shot that most readers here would understand. I won't pursue that any further in this thread and I'm pretty sure you've hashed that out with many here before me.
  
  "Not Con, but your son could have asked "Yelysaveta" if she knew why the Jews today don't also view the day the Israelites left Egypt after midnight to be passover when passover didn't end until the next evening?"
  
  I think you're missing or ignoring the central point of my thread which was:
  
  "What struck my son and myself was the total lack of awareness of how arrogant he must have looked. Even if Yelysaveta was wrong, wouldn't it be better to let the person FROM the culture explain it, and then if you've got a problem with it, ask her about it later?"
  
  If a Native American student from the Pacific Northwest was relating a story of how "potlatches" worked and I happen to have a PhD in Native American studies (I don't, BTW) calling him out in front of everyone else on how he may be wrong on a couple of points is rude and arrogant, IMO. Even if I use a question to accomplish it, I'm still being an off-putting know-it-all.
  
  Blind of Lies and Doubting Bro took a couple of sweeping generalizations swipes at JWs which can be cathartic but usually not totally fair. But then you picked up the sweeping generalization baton and slammed Baptists with the same technique.
  
  "I believe these were the children of Jehovah's Witnesses, not Jehovah's Witnesses."
  
  Actually I didn't specify their baptismal status, but if we're talking about a Elder's son in High School, more often than not, he's gonna already be baptized. In this case, "Con" took the plunge at the wise old age of 13. That's a pretty typical age around here.
  
  "You see, I learned very young in life that if people are going to continue to think you are smart, you cannot give them the answers to the questions you ask them; "
  
  Thanks for opening up a bit about your childhood background. Seriously.
  
  "And today you'd probably get a phone call from the school indicating how your son was charged with assault."
  Agreed.

  om
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  23

  Son to JW school-mate: "Go ahead. Tell the Jewish girl how the Jewish holiday REALLY happened."

  by Open mind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my family (wife and teenage kids) and i awakened to the true nature of the wt society a couple years ago and are fairly well faded now.. .

  my son attends high school with a couple of jws, one of whom is an elder's son and an ardent true believer.

  let's call him "con".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Open mind

  My family (wife and teenage kids) and I awakened to the true nature of the WT Society a couple years ago and are fairly well faded now.
  
  My son attends high school with a couple of JWs, one of whom is an elder's son and an ardent true believer. Let's call him "Con". (Short for Condescending.)
  
  So my son and Con have one class together and during some downtime while the teacher was out of the room and the class had time to kill, the topic of Spring/ Easter / Passover came up. So somebody says, "Hey, Yelysaveta (not her real name), you're Jewish right? What's the back story on the Passover?"
  
  So Yelysaveta starts relating a pretty standard version of the Israelites in Egypt and the splashing of the blood on the lentil, yadda yadda. When she's all done Con pipes in with this:
  
  "That's not how it happened!"
  
  My son is biting his tongue, rolling his eyes and screaming to himself: "Right. Go ahead Con. In front of all these people, you, the Jehovah's Witness, tell the Jewish girl all about how the Jewish holiday works."
  
  What struck my son and myself was the total lack of awareness of how arrogant he must have looked. Even if Yelysaveta was wrong, wouldn't it be better to let the person FROM the culture explain it, and then if you've got a problem with it, ask her about it later?
  
  Turns out, Con, the know-it-all JW was confusing the story of Jesus and the apostles celebrating Passover v. 1500 with the first one.
  
  Face palm!
  
  om
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  23

  Had another "Aha!" moment reading last Sunday's WT.

  by Open mind in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  since waking up to "the truth about the truth" several years ago there have been numerous "aha!

  " moments.

  i also think of them as "how could i have been so stupid?

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  Open mind

  Very well said Shawn10538.

  A pretty smart JW once told me that "illustrations don't prove a thing". He would then go on to relate the fantastic "illustration" (that's the only word JWs know for analogy, simile, metaphor, etc.) of how water illustrates the trinity. Three separate phases, vapor, liquid, solid, but still all the same compound. It's a great illustration, but it still doesn't make the trinity true ( or false ).

  Thanks for all the comments so far. I wish I had the time today to do a proper Flipper-style acknowledgement of everyone, but alas, kids, a dog, and a soon-to-arrive-after-working-all-day wife preclude that just now.

  om
• 
  23

  Had another "Aha!" moment reading last Sunday's WT.

  by Open mind in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  since waking up to "the truth about the truth" several years ago there have been numerous "aha!

  " moments.

  i also think of them as "how could i have been so stupid?

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  Open mind

  Still Thinking: "Maybe they are promoting drinking more coffee.......you never know...they might have shares in the company."

  Hey! Maybe the old apostate, Mr. Coffee, standing outside Bethel back in the 80's was right after all!

  om
• 
  23

  Had another "Aha!" moment reading last Sunday's WT.

  by Open mind in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  since waking up to "the truth about the truth" several years ago there have been numerous "aha!

  " moments.

  i also think of them as "how could i have been so stupid?

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  Open mind

  Since waking up to "the truth about The Truth" several years ago there have been numerous "Aha!" moments. I also think of them as "How could I have been so stupid?" moments.
  
  When I first read that "Babylon the Great" was John's code for the Roman Empire...."Aha!". It fits quite well, IMO.
  
  Anyway, yesterday's WT lesson on "Watchfulness" contained a new "Aha!" for me.
  
  The false comparison between the apostles falling asleep and the need for "watchfulness" in your life in general.
  
  The apostles fell asleep on Jesus last night of freedom here on earth. Big frikkin' whoop. Does the account say they fell asleep because they didn't care? No. People can fall asleep while driving, in combat, etc.... It doesn't make them a bad person.
  
  Does the WT make this direct comparison? Yes. Paragraph 3 says:
  
  "Surely the apostles regretted their failure to keep
  
  on the watch. Those faithful men quickly learned
  
  from their mistake. The Bible book of Acts shows
  
  that they went on to set an outstanding example in
  
  keeping watchful. "
  
  Is the WT saying that they became masters of managing sleep deprivation? I don't think so.
  
  It wasn't a huge "Aha!", but I'm adding it to my list.
  
  Any you'd like to share?
  
  om
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  16

  My Wedding Anniversary

  by TOTH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am happy to announce that today marks 22 years of married bliss to the most beautiful girl on earth.

  my lovely wife was always being harassed by the local overlords for wearing too much makeup, having her hair too wild, and for not being submissive to them.

  when we began dating the overlords pressured me to get her to change.

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  Open mind

  Congratulations! (I think your wife's Jezebel attitude may have rubbed off on mine.)

  I'm glad it did.

  om
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  41

  Tomorrow is a big day for me

  by coffee_black in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i will be 60 tomorrow.

  on the one hand, it's just a number.

  on the other hand, it's a big number.... .

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  Open mind

  I hope I look like you when I reach 60.

  (Of course I'll have to get a sex change, but...)

  Enjoy!!

  om
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  23

  Today he's a man...

  by mrsjones5 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ...well that's what the law says.

  to today is my oldest son's 18th birthday.

  part if me is slightly incredulous cuz it really doesn't seem like 18+ years, they've flown by.

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  Open mind

  Happy B-Day Shawn Jr.!!!

  I hope you don't get too "grown up" to still attend the occasional Lake Tahoe Apostafest.

  All the best to you with your plans.

  om

  p.s. to Mrs. Jones: I always laugh/cringe when I read a newspaper article that says "An 18 year old man....." did this or that. The arbitrary nature of one day being a boy and the next day being a man always seemed pretty unnatural to me. And it is. It's just a legal thing. Keep on being a great mom and the new "man" in the house will turn out fine. Cheers.
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  63

  Prelude to a disfellowshipping

  by rory-ks in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was 25 years a congregation member; ten years an elder; all told, up to 18 years an appointed man; a decade or so as a full-time minister; assembly speaker, with the pinnacle giving the public discourse at a district convention.. .

  i stopped being an active member of the congregation in november 2010, but it had been brewing for several years, with the customary gradual drifting away - all the necessary mental gymnastics as my spiritual views changed and doubts set in; quitting the theocratic ministry school; ceasing to answer; sitting quietly off to the side.

  i think the straw that broke the camels back was when family worship inevitably became family worship.

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  Open mind

  Great first post and welcome to JWN.

  I've really enjoyed some of your blog posts. Your perspectives on "Christianity" are practical and refreshing.

  All the best to you.

  om
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  42

  A “Born ins” challenge to develop a "post cult" personality.

  by stuckinamovement in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a born ins challenge to develop a post cult personality.. mentally leaving the organization can be traumatic for a number of reasons.

  one of the biggest challenges for born-ins in finding their pre cult personality is that our entire personalities are based on the religion.

  there is no such thing as a pre cult personality for us.

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  Open mind

  Great post SIAM.
  
  Since there was no "Pre" Cult personality for us born-ins, it's probably more helpful to think of "Non" Cult personality. That boils down to how much of your life you were able to devote to non-JW activities while still a witness.
  
  My parents were fairly strict in many areas but they did allow for some self-expression and development through playing music, non-school sports activities, a bit of non-District Convention travel and, later on, a smattering of classes at the Community College level.
  
  For that I am grateful that the hole in my soul isn't as great as some posters here.
  
  Thanks again SIAM.
  
  om